New Brake Lines

[metalmike]

I was thinking of replacing my brake lines with some stainless steel ones. Does anyone have any opinions about this? Is this modification just aesthetic or does it really improve braking performance? Thanks for any feedback.

[The Sauce]

The technology can improve braking feel and consistancy, but it all depends on how hard you ride your bike.

I've had many customers tell me that they felt a HUGE difference when I put their new lines on, but I think it's just because the system just needed a good bleeding.

Basically it boils down to how hard you ride your bike. If you're putting in some hot laps at the track, you'll feel the brakes stay consistant corner after corner, but if you're cruising around on the street you won't really tell the difference.

$0.02

[1HardRyder4Life]

Spend money elsewhere unless you are really riding hard enough to need them....IMO.

[HollywoodBush]

I agree with the above. I just changed out my front lines to Galfer and I changed out the brake pads, but I didn't have to I just got a good price on them. The pads I changed out still had life left on them but I did it anyways. You wont feel a difference when changing the lines unless you ridden the bike long enough to know when you pull on the brakes it feels like "mush". Ive done this a handful of times but it was nothing I was to concern with it just means the rubber brake lines needed a break from all the riding I had done. Now I have Galfer lines and will never feel that problem again, it is a cheap add on so I did not mind spending the bucks.

[metalmike]

Alright, thanks. That helps. My bike is 7 years old and the brake fluid has never been changed, so I figured that when I change the fluid I might as well upgrade the brake lines while I'm at it.

Another quick question: I don't really ride my bike too hard, but is the decline in performance of rubber brake lines in any way related to heat? (This may influence my decision since I will be riding in some excessive heat here in Phoenix this summer.)

[HollywoodBush]

If you think brake lines are not to expensive I would replace them. I feel they are a cheap add on and nothing really you are dumping to much money into. Heat makes the rubber expand/stretch/become more plyable, however you want to say it. Heat is why people change to S.S. lines, rubber lines fatigue when you heat them, hense riding your brakes will cause the build up of heat, when heat builds up in the lines and you apply brakes they feel like mush since you don't have the same consistancy of brake fluid being applied.

[Chas4RR]

I got a question - after a couple hard track days my brakes feel like mush. It was going that way at the end of the last day and I thought it was heat, but they never really came back and im wondering if I burned up the fluid or something? Maybe I should just flush them?

[HollywoodBush]

If they still feel like crap I would change the fluid then. You have SS lines on your bike right?

[NomadRip]

Alright, thanks. That helps. My bike is 7 years old and the brake fluid has never been changed, so I figured that when I change the fluid I might as well upgrade the brake lines while I'm at it.

Another quick question: I don't really ride my bike too hard, but is the decline in performance of rubber brake lines in any way related to heat? (This may influence my decision since I will be riding in some excessive heat here in Phoenix this summer.)

Yes, heat will soften the rubber to some degree. Perhaps noticeably, depending on how hard you are on them. What they were saying above is the same thing, essentially. When you are hard on the brakes like at the track, the pads obviously heat up, and that heat transfers to every other part of the system, including the fluid. When the fluid starts to heat up, the rubber will soften from the heat. When the rubber lines soften, they will then swell when you try to apply braking pressure.

It's a hydraulic system, so it will push whatever the easiest thing to push is. The idea is to keep that as the caliper pistons, but if it takes less pressure to swell the lines, it will. Then your brakes will feel like mush, or like they are fading out. You pull the lever in, and it goes farther with less braking. Aftermarket lines use materials resistant to swelling and heat, so the fluid will fail before the lines will swell.

I've seen OEM lines blister up, and even pop. But only on severely old, hammered bikes or those that get really hard use.

[Chas4RR]

If they still feel like crap I would change the fluid then. You have SS lines on your bike right?

naw - all stock, even the pads. well i did get some of those blingy levers.

[Chas4RR]

im going to bleed them out this weekend - i was reading that old fluid can be a bad thing after a few track days, and as far as I know mines original and about a year old.

[HollywoodBush]

change it buddy....only other thing I can think of is to check the pads but I think the fluid is going to be the answer.

[Cookiebug79]

I got a question - after a couple hard track days my brakes feel like mush. It was going that way at the end of the last day and I thought it was heat, but they never really came back and im wondering if I burned up the fluid or something? Maybe I should just flush them?
Yeah, Chas, you're going to need to bleed your brakes.

Once the brake fluid heats up too much it passes it's boiling point. Basically it burns and becomes no-longer effective. It's properties don't come back, you need to flush out the fluid.

Be careful not to get any fluid on the plastics! That stuff is nasty.

[Chas4RR]

will do. thx for the help and sorry to jack the thread, whatever it was.

[AdvSac]

my .02, use Motul 5.1 - Ive had it in for a good time now and notice it dosnt discolor like belray. Not saying that the discoloration is linked to decreaced performance or heat handling, but I just notice the quality is there.

[Cookiebug79]

my .02, use Motul 5.1 - Ive had it in for a good time now and notice it dosnt discolor like belray. Not saying that the discoloration is linked to decreaced performance or heat handling, but I just notice the quality is there.
Cool. I've never tried Motul 5.1, I usually use some Valvoline DOT 4 stuff from AutoZone.

The discoloration actually does have something to do with it. "Good" fluid should be clear or slightly pink. It is very difficult to compress, hence why it is used in brake systems. If you do a lot of hard braking the heat causes the fluid to break down. The color is an indicator that the fluid should be replaced. It turns dark gray/brown and becomes compressible. If that happens, the fluid in the line actually compresses instead of moving the brake calipers, hence the "squishy" feeling.

If you have a squishy feeling and the brake fluid is still clear, then you most likely have air in the lines. The air then compresses much more before moving the caliper. The solution to this is also to bleed them.

Make sure you use at least DOT 4 fluid in motorcycles. This rating refers to the boiling point of the fluid. The higher the numbers, the higher the boiling point.

Normally cars use DOT 3. I switched my car to DOT 4 as well because I'm a crazy woman driver, so I like to slam on the brakes way too late or ride the brakes. :thumb

[Chas4RR]

Well - I went and bled the brakes (I use Galfer DOT4 cause its cheaper than the Motul by a lot). Haven't ridden it yet but its was pretty brown. FWIW, the way I go about getting the old stuff out of the line is like this:

Bleed out one brake caliper until reservoir is ALMOST empty. Don't let it run all the way empty or air can be pulled into the line. Take a paper towel or rag and soak up all remaining fluid in reservoir. Clean inside of reservoir well with another clean paper towel or rag. Now add fluid to top line and start bleed down process again until you see fluid in bleeder line run clean.

Repeat for other caliper, making sure not to let reservoir run empty at any point.

Refill reservoir. Wipe inside rubber grommet off well with a clean rag, pushing rubber out from backside to fully expose nooks and crannies. Replace cap.

As Jen said, make sure to not get brake fluid on anything. Some "reservoir-on-handle" types will "pop" fluid out when your release the handle quickly so watch out for those. Also, I always put a rag around the bleeder screw before starting the process - sometimes fuid will seep out of the screw sides when it is loosened and down onto the pads.

[pmp]

So whats the trick on the 600rr to get all the air out when the resevoir has run empty?

After I had my calipers PCd I installed SS lines and bled them. Long story short the brakes are worse than stock. I am very familiar with the vacuum bleed method but I can't get it to work for shit on my bike. It seems like no matter what I do they still end up squishy. I'm going to get some new fluid and bleed them again.

[Chas4RR]

So whats the trick on the 600rr to get all the air out when the resevoir has run empty?

After I had my calipers PCd I installed SS lines and bled them. Long story short the brakes are worse than stock. I am very familiar with the vacuum bleed method but I can't get it to work for shit on my bike. It seems like no matter what I do they still end up squishy. I'm going to get some new fluid and bleed them again.

you might have to pump the hell out of them to get them primed again, but vacuum method is best i think. Only problem could be if they ran "dry" you might have damaged the master cylinder by pumping them more. Hoping that's not the case, but I would just get a ton of fluid and start bleeding them down - just don't let it go dry again.

[Cookiebug79]

Bike brake lines are so short that there's really not a need for the vacuum bleed IMHO.

Once the reservoir gets lower than the intake, you basically have to fill it up and start over. You have to work that tiny air bubble all the way through the lines and out the bleeder. PITA.

[Chas4RR]

yeah - but i know what he means if you let it run dry it can be a pita to prime it again. probably only cause i had that happen on an old master cylinder that prolly doesn't have a good seal.

[Cookiebug79]

Oh to prime the cylinder? Yeah, fill it up and pump it a bunch. But start pumping slowly and don't have the vacuum system on when you do that.

[Chas4RR]

if i don't have a vacuum pump, can i use any old pump laying around the house?

[pmp]

Like a penis pump Chas? :thumb

Not sure they exert the same kind of negative pressure.

[g33k]

Like a penis pump Chas? :thumb



It's not mine, baby! I swear! :naughty2



Anyway, good info. I'm gonna do mine this Sunday. When I screw it up you all can help me fix it.

Where can I buy some Motul or Galfer fluid? Cycle Gear?

[Chas4RR]

You can get Motul or Galfer at Cyclegear (http://www.cyclegear.com).

Penis pumps are here (http://www.bettersex.com/adult-sex-toys/erectile-solutions/penis-pumps-c-49.aspx)

Good luck in both matters.

[pmp]

I know a link that I'm NOT clicking.

One thing I did notice is that after you bleed them, give them a night to "settle" and they will be better the next day.

[The Sauce]

I know a link that I'm NOT clicking.

One thing I did notice is that after you bleed them, give them a night to "settle" and they will be better the next day.

Yeah, that's usually the brake fluid effervescing.

The same effect may be achieved by kicking the bike over, but with some possibly unwanted side effects.:loser





I just really wanted to use the word effervescing.

[Dr. GoFast]

SS lines make a huge difference, i would recommend them to anyone in any situation. they look great, improve braking performance/consistency and are inexpensive. brake lines is #1 mod on any bike i buy. they're cake to install as well.

[metalmike]

Would anyone be able to give me some step by step instructions on how to install the ss brake lines? I'm probably going to be buying some pretty soon here, but would like to know what I'm getting myself into. Also, what is the best way to avoid getting brake fluid on the paint? Is there something that you can cover the bike with, like a towel, or should you take off all the bodywork that you can? Thanks for the help, and if you can provide any pictures so that I can see what you're talking about that would be a huge plus. Thanks again.

[Vtec44]

This is not 600RR specific but the information itself is pretty generic

http://www.kawiforums.com/showthread.php?t=21755

http://sportbikeguy.com/garage/floor/brakeline.html

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263172

http://www.russellperformance.com/installation_imprt_brkline.htm

[The Sauce]

SS lines make a huge difference, i would recommend them to anyone in any situation. they look great, improve braking performance/consistency and are inexpensive. brake lines is #1 mod on any bike i buy. they're cake to install as well.

I've got these prototype cross-drilled brakelines I want to try on your bike, I think you'll do good with them.

[whizbop]

There are 2 mods that provide instant right-now results when it comes to motorcycles.

Gearing and Brakes.

For 300$ you can radically change how quickly you go and stop. Now the stock brakes are very good but during a full day at the track you can feel when they start to fade.